Original source video by vectorfunk
Recorded at Kickstart UK Amiga Expo 3, Derby, August 8, 2026.
Speakers: Paul Dziennik and Mike Battilana. Thomas Foss is also mentioned.
For the official written summary of the agreements discussed, see August 2026 update.
Note: This is a Claude Pro cleaned-up version of an automated (Whisper) transcription of noisy conference-room audio with accented speech. There will be some mistakes/errors. Produced by Steven Solie. Corrections are most welcome.
Version: 1.0
A bit sleepy tonight. It's good to be over here. It's been a hectic two months. Hey, Mike. Microphone presentation. We're going in here. Mike, Mike.
So, this is a bit of a continuation of the talk we had at the Red Point event six weeks ago. At the time, these two agreements we're going to mention today have not been concluded yet, and this makes a huge difference in clarity between the questions you can ask and the questions we can answer. So, first for a refresh, a bit of a surprise topic, maybe, which has been waiting for seven years now, because we've been brainstorming about this topic since the original Amiga acquisition in 2019. Paul is going to present something about the Amiga logo. Paul.
So, good morning, everyone. Can you hear me well? No. Lift the mic up higher. Can you? Yeah. So, good morning, everyone. My name is Paul, and I live in Poland, of course, so Paul from Poland, and I'm, of course, a big fan of Amiga. And together with Thomas and with Mike and Thomas, who is a lead designer behind the new Amiga logo project, and, of course, our brainstorming team, our friends of Amiga, we created a refreshed visual identity for our favorite brand. Unfortunately, Thomas, who is the main designer behind the logo, couldn't be here today, but I had the pleasure of leading the project, so I will walk you through all the details.
So, as Mike said, about five, maybe six years ago, we approached Mike with the Amiga hardware project with Thomas, but because of the legal situation, it was put on hold. But during this conversation, we proposed a few new Amiga logos, but again, because of the legal situation, it was put on hold again. And three months ago, Mike reached out and said that the time was right to come back to this project. And me and Thomas, we run digital agencies and web agencies, so it was a natural fit for us, and to be honest, a great honor to work on the Amiga logo.
So the new Amiga logo isn't a revolution. It's an evolution. I think it's a careful, respectful evolution of something we all love, so I hope you will like it. But before getting to our work, a brief look at the history, which I'm sure everyone in this room knows well. So Amiga logo has gone through a number of iterations, reflecting in every shift in technology, in corporate ownership, ambition of different people, and so on. So we had a 1982 early Amiga logo, this hand-drawn red line version. We have, of course, an iconic 1985 logo presented with Amiga 1000. We have this weird, for me, late 80s logo which was probably used mainly by the US division of the Amiga. And we have, of course, the red square dot version and the bouncing ball version from 1996. And, of course, some of these variants work better than others.
But during our design process, we had to make a decision on our direction. And in our opinion, the 1985 version is the most recognizable and resonant symbol of our favorite platform. So it expressed what machine was, so a multimedia revolution, for me, a combination of raw computational power with human creativity. So this logo was the foundation for further refinements.
And we started with the wordmark. The original wordmark is a slightly modified Garamond Bold Italic font. But Garamond Italic font is a font with a long history, very elegant, but it has no issues and flows by today's standard. And most issues are related to inconsistencies. So let's take a closer look at the original wordmark. So it has, as far as I remember, about six different angles, a significant number of stroke weights, inconsistent spacing, non-uniform serifs. So a lot of small things that are not unified. And, of course, the rest of the wordmark has the same inconsistencies.
So what we did was carefully redraw the wordmark from scratch, creating a more refined and consistent mark, but preserving the original look and feel. In the background, you can see the original wordmark as a shadow for a comparison. So it's close, but it's very refined. And if we take a closer look, you can see all these fixes in detail. So we applied just a few simple rules. So now we have only three angles, just two weights of the strokes, like thin and thick. The serifs are built from the same, simpler form. We straightened the wobbly serifs so the logo now looks cleaner, with modern look and the letters aligned perfectly or precisely at the top and at the bottom. And the same logic was, of course, applied throughout the rest of the word.
And, of course, the next big thing is a rainbow checkmark. It always was an iconic symbol of the logo, but again, with a lot of issues, like inconsistent angles, you can see unnatural, very unnatural shadows and make a visual disconnect from the wordmark, from the design point of view. But for me, the biggest issue is that it has appeared in so many variants over the Internet. So different shades, different color of the gradients, different proportions, with no consistent version adopted by the community. So here you can see just four variants of this checkmark, but believe me, there are hundreds of them over the Internet.
But before designing or creating the new checkmark, first we defined seven core colors for the Amiga. They are very close to the original, but they are refined for today's standards. So they are especially more vivid. We also defined two additional colors, like dark and light for backgrounds, for typography, and so on. Of course, these colors are very well defined with hex values and so on, so you can reuse them very easily. And we applied all these seven colors and created a new Amiga gradient. And using this gradient, based on the gradient colors, we defined a new checkmark with rounded forms, the same 32-angle matching the wordmark, modern color palette, so the same DNA as 1985 logo, but revealed for today's standards and for the future.
We also refined some small details, so maybe let's take a closer look at them. The original checkmark had a very sharp bend at the bottom, so we rounded it slightly and added a subtle shadow at the bend, dropped by the longer stripe on the shorter one, and the whole result feels softer and smoother now, and to be honest, more refined. And we applied the same logic for the tips of the stripes, so the corners, so rounded them slightly. These are small details, but the logo feels like now one unified design, not two elements, I mean the checkmark and the wordmark placed side by side. So these two, these rounded elements match the rounded serif of the wordmark. So we have now one consistent unified design throughout the entire logo.
And here it is, the Amiga logo on the light background. So this is the primary version, the one you will probably see most often. I believe it's clean, recognizable, and it honors over 40 years of history, but setting a clear standard for today and for the future. And one more version, the version on the dark background, when the rainbow gradient really comes alive, it's my favorite one. So the logo reflects the full energy, what Amiga has always represented, like creativity, fun, technical strength, and something that for me feels ahead of its time. So I hope that you will love the new refreshed logo as much as we do. And thank you. Thank you.
And I would like to say that we are working on more visual things around the Amiga. So we are extending the visual... The brand book at the moment, probably will create some logo reveal animation in a few months. There is a website, Mike, waiting for... So Amiga.com, waiting for building. It's not just visual thing, but the very main part of the Amiga. So, yeah, more things to come in the future. It's just a very... Yeah, some context to me. Thomas was the main designer and, of course, Mike.
Thank you. Thank you, Paul.
So, interestingly, this is about perfection in detail, about obsession, quality. When we released the announcement about the recent agreements that were entered, a few days ago, at the bottom, there was the new logo. Nobody noticed. And this is what we wanted. Not a radical change, but clarity. For everyone to be able to use the same standards, what colors? How should it be magnified? How will it be small? Also in pixels, we're working with pixel artists to see how it can look, maybe in the Amiga Workbench screen, Workbench 3 and so on. So...
Now we are going to talk a little bit about the reason why we were able to make this announcement and set a new course and, at last, remove some of the possible features and focus on a few ones. And how we got here. Ravi, yesterday, you... Ravi, yesterday, found this picture and we said, let's use it today. That's me with the green hair when I had hair. And I was dressed as Amiga Syndrome at Amiga.com. With Gen 9, of course, and the gentleman in Commodore France. That's a long way. And actually, there's a story that came up. I never told this. Never. Even at Amiga. It was 11 or 12. Commodore Italy was pitching the VIC-20 for the educational market. And they thought, for some reason, because I was active with the local, for the Northeast, they thought that me, as a young boy, was a good example to show to schools how somebody could sit an the table and program well. That was 15 years before. But maybe I was 19, 20. I don't know what it was here.
So I was always dressing up like in church to be taken seriously, because I always felt like the youngest. And then in the U.S. they said, why are you always dressing like that? Because he's your client. No. So I was doing this. I was sitting an a table programming some music in BASIC. And every now and then the people from the school organization were looking and so on. And then we went to Commodore Italy and they put me on a chair. I remember there was this golden, I don't know if it was a golden C64. I think it was a golden VIC-20 or something. And there was somebody from Commodore U.S. visiting that day. And I was there like playing. And this gentleman comes in, goes out, shouts, what's the boy doing on my chair? So I don't know. Was it whoever? Jack Tramiel maybe? I met Jack Tramiel and his sons at some events when he was already at Atari. But yeah, I like to believe it was some big fish from Commodore U.S. So I started a little bit too early and I still don't know. I'm still touching Amiga floppy disc labels today. But that's going to work.
So, as I was mentioning, this is a bit of a continuation of the talk we had at DreadCon(?), where we were missing the clarity of these two crucial elements with Commodore, the video entity involved in these trademarks, and with Hyperion, where after many years at last we concluded the initial settlement. And there's almost total clarity, I say almost because I know there's some questions. And the acquisition, as you know, into the current Amiga entity was completed in 2019. But we inherited this legal case which needed to be resolved in order to be here and be able to do this.
Also the logo. You saw a 10-15 minute presentation of this work, but you didn't see the long labor of the discarded logos. The two radical changes, the other agencies and the creative people who made proposals. And our agonizing talks with the retail partners and with former Commodore people and other interested parties about other possible futures and logos. But at some point you have to make some choices. So some people, of course, are passionate about the Boing Ball, and we think still it has a strong narrative reason to continue to exist. Like Mitchie the dog, like RoboCity, and like other elements of the Amiga history. So this will be the corporate logo. More and more, and with more consistency over time.
Also you'll see some AI-generated pictures on a light shirt like you posted. The gentleman from Commodore came to visit us in May. So you have Alex and John and Perry together with our team, Massimo, Carlo, Angelou. And we have some talks about possible futures. The possible futures are still open in part, but we reached an important agreement. This agreement took a few months to conclude. Of course we confirmed the licensing because Amiga, as you probably know, thanks to the work also of Cloanto, Amiga owns the copyrights also for the 8 bits. So we had to clarify all these aspects of mutual recognition and licensing. So almost in closing a circle, Amiga, which was purchased by Commodore in 1984, now owns most of the assets in terms of copyrights plus the Amiga logo, but not, of course, the chicken lips and the Commodore mark. But also in the agreement, Amiga is allowed to continue to use those marks in historical materials. So I am in touch with David McMurtrie, who you know probably well from the historical society preserving all these Commodore documents on Facebook. And he said this is the best news we've heard since 1994, because at last we know who can preserve and what we can do. Otherwise what we have to do is remove the logos, or who's in charge of what. So we reached a priority in these elements, and it's been a team building experience.
Let's start with, they say we come in peace, no? This is the agreement. So it was a nice team building experience really. We meet a bit at the base home and other guys. I like that they are a nice team and they make sense of our team. Positive, constructive relationship so far. And here of course we have Timothy. Right after that I went to Belgium, because we have to really, we have a deadline, deadline, and we defined the roles and confirmed everything about AmigaOS 4, AmigaOS 3, the timeline. Leaving some elasticity, not ambiguity, I would say, some elasticity in how the transition should best be done for the handover of AmigaOS 3 from Hyperion management to Amiga management. Hopefully with many of the same developers, but also many new ones. That sounds like your question. What was I able to ask? I was saying I was sleepy, sorry.
So nothing changes for OS 4, of course. Everything was absolutely confirmed. There were no disputes ever about that. So if there was a lack of clarity about other CPUs, we just confirmed that any CPU is possible for Hyperion's AmigaOS 4, except for the 68K. So 68K is now defined clearly as a new domain both for the old and for the future. We started already working on some new work for AmigaOS 3, like I have an RTG subsystem here actually. I can show it to you later downstairs. And we are unifying our development systems with different compilers and two chains right now. So at least until the end of 2027, there will be an AmigaOS 3.2 and 3.3 by Hyperion, and at some point during this year or next year, there will be more work by Amiga and the 68K. Basically, this is my introduction, and open to your questions. I'm sure more little details will also come up in my mind now. So yes.
Yes. Well, there is a big debate, for example, now they talk a lot about age rating, about age verification. Should an OS have TCP/IP or not, for example? Should, for hacker reasons even, should there be a real stack like IPv6 in the mission here before? I think there should be an IPv4, last but not least, because AmigaOS 3.9 added, and there should be a replacement of all of these 3.5, 3.9 and 3.1.4, 3.2, 3.3. And I think there should be a version which Amiga would like to offer as a free update, that at last allows you to say I'm content with this version and I don't need to get bits and pieces from the past. So at least we should drop that.
So ReAction is another problem. In a settlement agreement you reach elegance, maybe of draft version 10, by the time we have draft version 40, it can become a bit of patchwork. For example, up until the end of June, there was a more elegant transition from 3.3, right from Hyperion to Amiga, and then the issue of backported code from AmigaOS 4 to AmigaOS 3 became an issue, a blocking issue. So we have to remove that. There's been some debate how many lines of code are we talking about? Is it 800 or 1000 lines? How much can it be worth? Why should we be blocking, and so on? Or is this about something else?
Now we are going to get soon a 3.1.4 build that already has some enhancement of part of the 3.2-plus years, like file system work by Olaf Barthel, for example. So I don't know how exactly the... I think this margin for, as I used to go, to elasticity, this margin for future discussions about the reaction, for example, between OS 4 and OS 3, the future can be also one of the radical changes. Amiga has so many things to so many people, it can also be a completely different thing. That's not for us to decide, at least not outside of the 68K front. But maybe you can, as a next step, we could join forces with the AROS team and plan things even better together. I think this is the best first step, considering the past few years, into the future.
Yes? Will you be using your branding guide on your website? Yeah, we should have both a branding guide and brand news. So there's been a lot of confusion, also on the... I don't even like it, with the Amiga website, but every company gives some advice on how it's based, and the feel of footnotes and these things, so it's highly realistic.
Is there any future plans for Amiga themselves to reach hardware, or is it going to be worldwide? So right now, I don't know if you saw this article from a few days ago, we have big hardware partners, so from Retro Games to Antstream Arcade streaming, Blaze Entertainment, you may know them from the Evercade, and from the Hypermega type of little products, we use cartridges also with Amiga. Of course, Cloanto, now being a licensee, in Commodore also in Lithuania. Other games do hardware, and you continue to do hardware, and they do high volume hardware, so containers full of new Amiga hardware. Where one thing I miss personally, and I think as a company it will be a high priority, is when you have all these products also by SpecNext and others, there's a bit of a fragmentation of the operating system reference. Also in the content, you buy a game here and you're not sure whether you can use it on all of these different platforms. So it will be a high priority, once we have a next AmigaOS 3 that meets the criteria we said before, that is able to replace the previous. Not that it's necessarily needed for retro gaming. For retro gaming you need AmigaOS 1.3 and 3.1, and maybe a few more, for total compatibility. All games don't really rely on 3.1, but still, if we also want a future, that's also an important step. And I think we should standardize how to package the titles that can be purchased, or otherwise pre-acquired, whatever the game developers decide. There's been such a rich newly developed content in the last years in 8-bit and in Amiga, so it's a pity to not have these hundreds of thousands of machines be usable for that content. And about new hardware, yes, it's on the map, but the important thing for now is that the partners are a bit more aligned on the actual ability to use AmigaOS and its content.
Firstly, it's a very great, person to take on the brand and get that logo in front of a room full of enthusiasts like that and fiddle with it, that's a great thing. I think it's a good job all around. Thank you. We're going to have a big round of applause. In the community there's always someone that hates it, but that's life. So personally, yeah, great.
My question is, with all the conversation you had on the OS and security in that kind of space, the utopian vision I've heard some people suggest it would be great if there was a version of AmigaOS on ARM, natively. Of course, ARM is fine, or what else? Has that come up in any discussions? It has, but the clarity we reached, it was an important milestone, locks us out of non-68K for now, so this is, in my opinion, a possible future next step, talking with Hyperion, with Trevor, and all the parties. It's an important first step. We couldn't do the next step without the previous one. And of course, the moment we brought clarity about some issues, and some people said, why do you put all these topics in a single announcement, like four days ago, and I said, we have five more, actually. And then I mentioned some of these, and he said, ah, no, why don't you mention these too? I said, either it's too long or it's too short, or I think we have some discussions and plans, and I prefer to deliver facts. Two more questions. But yes, ARM, or is it fine? We are, awesome, yes. I remember when I was a big fan of PowerPC, and the debate was should it be, out of PowerPC.
Sorry, there was, you were first. I have a few questions. Was there any potential for open-sourcing for the native stuff? And the other side of it is, you brought like Power Thread in the game, and the discussion for Commodore, is there any potential for bringing other things from the native port to Commodore? So the first question was yes, I think open source, if by open source you mean a strict OSI definition, I think that could be a third step, we're not getting there. The first step would be, in my opinion, if by free you also see a relationship with open and free and more available, the free upgrades would be an important step in my opinion. And then we may have like a dual license, with, for example, OSI licenses you have, like Apache, which says okay, but there's no trademark license implied, or you have some dual license mechanism, or you have a non-commercial. So for example, free, open, with source available to use on your machines, sure, that's an easy next step. But then as a commercial entity, maybe you want to control the actual grant, and that's not part of that license, and you have a commercial license for the partners. So I think this could be a very feasible and likely second step. And as for a complete, like an OSI approved license, that is more theoretical third step, but I see these in disorder right now.
And the second question was about a possible more product, like under the Commodore Amiga brand, or just the Amiga brand itself, talking about, that other people discussed, to bring more things up and broadly under the Commodore Amiga brand. So, if by that you also mean hardware, in-house, yes, so all of our hardware partners have engineering, got easier in a way, you can do more in smaller teams from the testing to the manufacturing and production. We have people, they go to China on a Sunday, and Monday, the first day they are in the factory, and on Friday they already discussed the prototype refinements. And that's how you can work today. It was disrupted a bit with COVID, but now it's again fully running. And all of these teams have also some duplication of work, you know, Blaze Entertainment, Retro Games, SpecNext, Commodore, they all replicate some of the resources, and maybe there's potential for more efficient integrations there. But about in-house, what does in-house mean? It will almost be being manufactured in China probably. I see both partnership and direct.
Yes, and it should have a new legal institution, it should also have the past. I think Amiga has as part of its identity also the ability to run the old, so AmigaOS 1.3 and 3.1 and 2 and so on, they should be included in Amiga, also on an ARM Amiga. I think you should have the compatibility to run the old, that's part of what defines Amiga in my opinion. Maybe the 8-bit, just to confuse it a bit more, the ability to run Amiga C64 content and so on, should also be part of it, and that will be a challenge also from the brand's point of view, how do you brand 8-bit by Amiga.
How much time do we have left? So there was a question just about the ARM part. I know that there is an ARM support, it's not working, so you use the code on this. Well, if you want maximum compatibility, you can tap into the original. We've had some discussions with some developers who are very passionate about ours, and now there's also new emerging developers who use AI tools very efficiently, and are more or less radical, they have different opinions about open source, for example, and they've come up with interesting approaches and solutions. So there's not only AI, I'm looking where AI tools are going, what you will be able to do in one or two years from now. The whole concept of what is your own IP, what you can do, what is important, is the brand more important than content that you can dynamically generate. You will soon be able to tell your computer, please, I want to use an Amiga-like user interface and applications. Don't even matter, you just tell the machine how you like to work in an editor, what type of user interface you want. There won't be apps anymore, who knows, there won't be an operating system anymore, so maybe we'll just help define that.
My question to the AROS developers, and not only, was, would you see, and again we're talking to the other question, would you see an open source Amiga OS as competition, would you basically support it? It can be a polarizing topic, but it makes you think, after all the work we did. Yes, no, and depending on the role you had, did you write some component that would fit in well or not, it's a challenging topic. Yes, I like this, and that's also why it's nice to be in a debate like this.
Hi, so a lot of work, thank you, I think we all appreciate work. With every rebrand, and every change of ownership, or with clarification of ownership, there comes a purpose, and that's to control the business, and that would be, and that's fair. My question is, with all the previous logos, and all the fragmentation that already exists and people using the past logos, how aggressively will you, as an entity, chase organizations and individuals that are using the older logos, and will you charge licensing to use your new logo on homebrewed produced games?
Well, you see things from a business perspective. If I was here for business reasons I wouldn't be, stupid, like my wife says, you need to get a real job. So yes, there is, you know, like in the Cathedral and the Bazaar paper about open source, do you need control, is anarchy better, many smaller media projects also flourished on prospect because of the fascinatoid. So I think the grassroots should not be hurt, on the contrary, that's why we are all here. I also think that direction and clarity can bring a better synergy and efficiency. About trying to milk the system from, just because there was a minor change to the logo, that's not going to make a difference in a single cent anywhere. But about creating a confusing product that claims to be an Amiga without being an Amiga, or being able to run Amigas, or meeting the expectation of an Amiga, is maybe, you know, with the work we did also with Hyperion was about clarity. And I think clarity will be part of the mission. Now whether you bring a possible hostile angle to that, I'd prefer to talk. I hope I answered the question so far, but if I didn't, please let me know.
Beside the open-source thing, which is separate, there is a long-standing amount of people that have developed Amiga software and have the knowledge of development. Now that it's more clear for you about who owns what and all that historical things, would you be open for people to be able to contribute some code or some extra features to the official codebase, so that it can be used by everyone when they get the update of their software?
Yes, so we are, yes, thank you for the question, the answer is yes. When you release a product to the masses, it needs to have some quality standards, which are a bit higher than the daily builds you can do with the IDEs. We think one of the problems that led to issues over the past years was a lack of proper agreements between the developers who contributed and the entity, like Amiga, who was going to distribute it. Contracts expiring and things like that. So whether we are going to choose like a CLA, a Contributor License Agreement, or a Copyright Assignment, like for example the AROS group does, it remains to be seen, but it should be one or the other, because otherwise if you change your mind after you decide it, and you could have kept it for your own project, but you decided that you wanted to contribute it into AmigaOS, and we, embracing this energy also of developers who did the work and wanted to do this work for free, we also say okay, then we don't want money for the upgrades. And if we make all these choices together, is it not destructive if you change your mind? Okay, with the same AI tools we discussed earlier, it's easy to replace something now, but we want stability and quality as the primary goal. The answer is yes, if it's brainstorming about visions and so on, we will do, I think, more developer meetings. We have one in the next few weeks with some developers. So developers having an opportunity to meet, also is also another thing, not just online, but also in real life. Yes, so the answer is generally yes, there are some ideas.
I know you can't speak for Hyperion about, you mentioned other CPUs of the M68K, is the door open to it being ported to other companies and assistants?
I wish that Timothy was here today, because he also deserves to be here, there will be opportunities where we also speak together, so we also don't have always the same presentation, a joint one would be nice. So Hyperion may do any CPU with once other than the M68K, and Amiga can do any Amiga OS version with once, or ISOs, parties, OEMs, and so on, but only for the M68K. This is the current situation, to bring clarity on what Amiga always used to be able to do, also with its partners. Cloanto, by the way, is now just a licensing, as it used to be in 1997 for Amiga Forever. It never wanted to be this torch for many years, it was trapped into this situation because of the ongoing litigation, but it went out as soon as the settlement was finished. So, does that answer your question about CPUs? I think the next step would be to sit down together and continue the conversation with all the parties who own the kernel, who own the code that is in addition to OS 3.
And you know, just a follow-up, where does MorphOS come into this?
That's a good topic. It was, yes, it's MorphOS, AmigaOS, and potentially now with these new tools, I just have to tell the machine, please create something with the same APIs, it won't be clear who, because the machine has been exposed to the combination with commercial and non-commercial projects. Yes, I look forward to the next meeting with Ralph and the other people with MorphOS teams. So I have the competition, it's not bad, they did a great job staying largely clear of legal issues, and I greatly respect them.
Following up on the CPU question, when you say 68K, does that include the Apollo/Vampire FPGA, any virtual, emulated, FPGA is covered by Amiga. In theory, could you go by a major 68K that has got the factory compatible, but actually it's like a different construction?
Yes, if it's a 68000 for example, it's covered by Amiga. So Amiga can do anything, it falls on the evolution of 68K, emulated, re-implemented, it's what everyone called it. Yes.
I was essentially going to ask the same question. I was going to ask more of the same question there, but it was just really in terms of the 68K. You say that AmigaOS 3.x is restricted to the 68000-68060, so does that include the modern 68K re-implementations that are considerably faster than the processors we brought to the OS, to take advantage of those last, emulated CPUs.
68K per cycle is very efficient. So I think there's a lot of things you could do with a modern 68K running, whether it's FPGA or ASIC. I don't think this is necessarily bad to be restricted to that, it needs focus and compatibility. What was your question beyond that?
Well, it's just, obviously when we talk about this, a lot of us are thinking about the retro side of it, running old software, but to bring it forward for new features within the OS.
New instructions for the 68K, if that is what you have in mind for improvements. But again, the need for alignment across departments, if you have, like, Vampire having something specific to them, and Amiga was officially using it, is it something that should be open to others or not? It's an interesting hope, but I admire the efficiency of the 68K, even by today's standards, and you can see it also in the implementation.
Sorry, there was two hands up at the same time, the last question on the back, one of you had the last question.
So going forward, 3.4 or whatever, is that handled by Amiga?
Yes. So actually, it opens the interesting question of how to name them, because you mentioned 3.4, it's still strange that it's a lower number of 3.5 or 3.9. Very transparently, we have some ideas, it could be 3.10, but it could also be a 3, a year version number. So it doesn't necessarily mean that we are forced to release a new version every year, but it's a way of versioning that will work for the next 75 years.
Amiga now, not Hyperion, this is Amiga, not Hyperion. Yes, that's what I mean. So it will be Amiga that will be handling the future events.
Yes. All Hyperion's previous work is obviously licensed to us. Is it, with say OS 3.2 or 3.14, was that also licensed to Hyperion?
Hyperion can use that until the end of next year, and they are giving to Amiga everything except some backported code from OS 4. We need to sit at a table and decide what to do with that. It's not a strict, no, because everything can be negotiated. I don't think anyone wants the death of AmigaOS 3.3 features just because of disagreement. I found the end of June version more elegant, because it was clear, but if it's not possible, and if it was necessary to sign this, it was better than nothing. But good work. It sounds like the progress, more announcement I'm sure. Exactly.